2005-10-03

An Easy Victory?

So is that it? Is the canon argument all wrapped up? Looks like it from here right now.

Frankly, I expected that there would be more of an uproar over the Starlog quote among the Vs. Debate EU Completists, but thus far it simply hasn't happened. Usually by this point several competing forms of BS would've appeared already, along with one thoroughly convoluted re-interpretation. This last one, by virtue of being so subtly full of it that it takes several minutes of thought for the average person to untangle, would become the standard line. I then publicize the rebuttal to their BS, and they ignore it.

However, this time there's simply been no substantive counterargument whatsoever. What little "counterargumentative chatter" I've seen about the quote is so easily brushed aside that I almost feel bad taking the time to type it out.

Of course, there have been no concessions either, which is to be expected. I suppose they're just trying to ignore it for as long as possible, which is unusual for them to do with the original quote.

In any case, I'll give them more time. I prefer to avoid even the appearance of overconfidence, and thus do not bust out with the dick-waving and declarations of victory at all . . . or at least, not immediately.

(Indeed, over at STrek-v-SWars I've been semi-patiently waiting for a guy to explain why he keeps denying that the Starlog quote means what everyone thinks it means. This I do in the spirit of honest inquiry, but it's been days now and he's refused to answer the question.

Also, expect a post soon wherein I actually do trouble myself to type out the quick responses to the EU-Phile reactions observed thus far, such as 'Lucas's words are to be ignored' and the "It's a fake!" objection, among others.)

6 comments:

  1. They're probably too cowardly to admit they've been beaten. I agree, the canon argument appears to have been settled for good.

    Great work!

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  2. I think they've been "OWNED" them into the next year.
    What little hopes of EU-inclusion have been blown to pieces, and they're just crying in their stormtrooper helmet :)

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  3. Obvously I can only speak of ASVS, but we seem to have quite happily crushed Mike4ty4's attempts to argue these claims. We didn't even think of resorting to "lucas' words are to be ignored" or "it's a fake", so I think it's far too soon for anyone to be declaring victory.

    You can make a very good case for the EU not being Lucas' vision of Star Wars, but true Star Wars lives on in other works, as several of your own Lucas quotes explicitly state.

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  4. I noticed yesterday that (remarkably enough) there had been some actual Vs. Debate activity at ASVS, and although it does add to the volume of EU-phile contrary chatter it does not add to the quality. Mike's done a fair job in trying to point out the obvious to you and your buddies. (Naturally, though, one must bear in mind that his success is not determined by whether or not you listen.)

    As previously noted elsewhere, I'll be appending the ASVS info to my general overview of EU Completist responses. I'm tentatively scheduling that for the weekend, since thanks to the utter weakness of the responses (despite the absurd claim that one who listens to Lucas has been "happily crushed"), I don't feel particularly rushed.

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  5. My guess for the basically dead response is that the higher ups of the pro-EU side have called a multi-day/week/month/year...possibly decade maybe meeting to get everyone on board and get their stories straight, so they can come out in full force at once. The meeting will have, along with free punch and cake/pie, an examination of every possible quote so far, with future questions devised to get the answers they want out of the Wars higher ups. But, always careful never to actually try to ask Lucas anything, since he'd bitch slap their ideas down, while trying to please them enough to buy more of his stuff.

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  6. While Star Wars may live on forever in the hearts of generations of fans, long after George Lucas's flannel shirts have mouldered to dust, I don't know that that changes much of anything.

    We have the movies, which are George's view (right or wrong, good elements and bad). And the EU, which is separate. "they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions".

    And because of this Starlog thing, the EU now ranks right up there with the Star Trek novels, some of which are good, some of which are wankery of the highest order.

    Just like the EU.

    So, in Saxton's EU, the Empire would win (and it looks like he'll change the numbers to make it that way). In Peter David's Universe, the Fed would (because major characters become omnipotent). It now all depends on what sources we use.

    Either we stick with what's on screen (Lucas and Paramount TV), or we allow every little thing that's come out (hey, let's go fanfiction) and muddy the waters.

    Not necessarily helpful to an honest debate.

    D

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