2009-08-03

Brilliant Point on Hoth

"Jack Fetch" on SpaceBattles (hat tip to "Mr. Oragahn" of SFJ) asked a penetrating question recently.

Given the claimed firepower for even the fighters of Star Wars (e.g. multi-kiloton yields from the Saxton/SDN Episode II Incredible Cross Sections children's book), there is no reason why the Rebel speeders should not have been capable of any of the following:

1. Melt or vaporize huge holes in the Hoth ice so that:
A. ... the AT-ATs would fall in because you just melted the ice they were standing on.
B. ... a super-trench the AT-ATs could not navigate would be created.

2. Use blast effects to:
A. ... knock the legs off-course with direct hits, causing instability or tripping a la the tow cable trip wire.
B. ... "tip the cow", producing blast waves that would naturally produce the most force against the largest-area part of the AT-AT: the body.

None of these things occur. There is no logical reason for any of them to fail to work. You may even be able to make up more possibilities yourself.


Further, the fact that we saw dudes in the trenches without any protection also proves the point. If kiloton yields were being tossed about a small battlefield in aerial combat against supertall war machines, would anyone seriously want to be in a mere snow trench? That's like hanging out around Hiroshima and hiding in an alley on a particular day in 1945 . . . not a good plan.

There is no plausible excuse for any of that . . . even the full efforts of pro-Wars trolls and biased moderators at SpaceBattles were unable to thwart the reader's mind from reaching the obvious answer to the "Jack Fetch" question. Their evasiveness, subject changes, and unwavering belief in megaton firepower being in play only served to make them look even more like fools.

But if you have an actual rock-solid idea as to why I should still believe in high yields at Hoth, please let me know via comment. If your idea is crap, however, do not expect the post to survive. I will not suffer fools.

2 comments:

  1. Honestly, *Shrug* There is not going to be any getting through to them. We at no point saw any rock in Hoth base, as they claim, to support the idea that the AT-AT's were firing at the actual structure of the base. The shaking seen in the movie actually starts farther out, before the walkers were even spotted, and supports the alternative hypothosis of the walker's own weight causing the ice and snow to shift, and accidentally causing damage to the base that way. An AT-AT is a multi-kiloton object. If that's stomping around on a glacier, and you're in the glacier, in some fancy smanchy snow-base, it's going to have an effect on you.

    Also, the only time anything that even remotely can be claimed to be kiloton level firepower from these walkers would be the power generator. The problem is, that creates extenuating circumstances in this case, namely that it's... a power generator. There is already something going on. When breached, that power GOES SOMEWHERE. Namely, a fireball of epic proportions.

    Also, Snowspeeders were being SHOT DOWN, not VAPORIZED IN A MASSIVE BALL OF FIRE, like getting hit with nuke-level firepower would suggest.

    Third, the very fact that there was still untouched snow at the end of the battle suggests that no thermal bloom from ANY kiloton level event ever took place, or else at minimum, the snow would have at least flash-boiled for a bit, before cooling into a thick cloud of vapor in the air, which would have induced twilight conditions, maybe freezing into a thick layer of ice over any solid objects on a firm foundation that would have survived.

    We see none of these things.

    Instead, we have ice falling in the base, before the assault, in time to what sounds like... walking. Is it that hard to equate to "The AT-ATs are so terrifyingly huge that they're felt before seen?"

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  2. According to Warsies, hand-blasters have kiloton yields.

    As to the ice, however, we don't know the depth of it; for example, the ice at the South Pole is 2100 meters thick, and on Hoth it could be even more. So they could claim that a kiloton-level blaster would simply make a hole in it that's about 2 meters wide, and 2000 deep.

    Likewise, there's the issue of AT-AT shield-geneators, which warsies will also simply claim are capable generating the same amount of energy as the AT-AT's themselves-- and thus could ABSORB that much kinetic energy from the rebel fighters.

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